Dopamine Detox: Boost Joy and Focus with Science with Dr. Rebekah Jazdzewski, PhD
In this episode of The Adaptive Mind, I sit down with Dr. Rebekah Jazdzewski—a clinical psychologist at a residential substance use program and clinical advisor for Neurture—to demystify dopamine’s role in shaping our behaviors. Drawing on her experience with everything from addiction treatment to everyday habit formation, Dr. Rebekah offers an in-depth look at the trendy “dopamine detox” and how it might help you reclaim your mental clarity and motivation.
After listening to this episode you'll learn:
- What dopamine is and why it matters
- How our daily habits can hijack our brains’ reward systems
- The science behind the “dopamine detox” concept
- Who it’s right for and how to incorporate healthier, more sustainable routines
- Practical tips on identifying triggers, mapping out alternative “dopamine menus,” and managing cravings
If you’ve ever caught yourself doomscrolling, mindlessly snacking, or online shopping to cope with life’s challenges, this conversation is packed with insights on how to reset your brain’s reward pathways and bring more balance into your everyday life. Tune in to find out whether a dopamine detox is your next step toward better mental health and renewed motivation!
Brady Dowling: So today we're going to be talking a little bit about dopamine and dopamine detox, and I have Dr. Rebekah Jazdzewski. So, Dr. Rebekah, could you just give us a little bit of background about yourself and maybe anything as it relates to dopamine and dopamine detox?
Rebekah Jazdzewski: Yeah. So I have a PhD in clinical psychology, and I work as a staff psychologist at a residential treatment program for substance use disorders, which is a lot to do with dopamine and trying to get more dopamine. And I'm also the clinical advisor of Neurture.
Brady: So jumping right in. Can you just explain what even is dopamine? I know it's kind of a popular term in Internet culture to an extent, and so probably a lot of people have an understanding about it to a certain degree, but if you could just talk about what it is and then maybe why it's actually important.
Rebekah: So dopamine, I think a lot of people know that's this molecule in your brain that does a lot of things, actually. But in terms of motivation and getting that kind of reward, there is a pathway in your brain that dopamine is basically completely in charge of. And dopamine really is what teaches us where we get the things that we enjoy. So it really helps us with finding that thing that feels really, really nice and how to find it again. So, for example, I have a golden retriever. He loves food, and we have a pear tree in our backyard, and it's been releasing pears every single day. And he has really learned where those pears are. Even when those pears go away, it's done with pears, he's going to keep on going back to that spot because dopamine has let him know where that special little treat is, and it's going to take him a while to not go back there. So that's what happens with humans as well, is that we learn that our phones or that video games or that little special treat feels really, really, really nice, and we're going to keep on habitually going back there, even maybe when it's not feeling so nice anymore or it's starting to impact our lives.
Brady: So it sounds like there is a really good part of dopamine, and then to a certain extent and at certain points, it can be negative. Is that right?
Rebekah: Yeah. So it's a lot about how much dopamine is there and the cycle of dopamine. So for habits or substances that are very, very addictive, it gives that huge, huge spike of dopamine and Then after that, we kind of run out really, really quickly. So we have a very, very quick drop of dopamine, and that drop really feels bad. We really want more. So we keep on going back to wherever we got that dopamine from. Things that are a little bit more healthy, give us a little bit of a peak of dopamine, but it doesn't really go away for a while. So it's kind of like if you go and work out in the morning, you're gonna feel that lasting effects of that workout for a while. But it also didn't feel that good in the moment either. So it's that slow, steady release of dopamine throughout the day.
Brady: And as we're talking about this, sometimes we say that sugary foods have dopamine in them. Is the dopamine in a certain thing or is it just coming from our brains, or where actually does the dopamine lie?
Rebekah: Sugar doesn't necessarily have dopamine. It's just something that is really lovely for that part of our brain that releases dopamine. So there's certain things, especially like sugar, because back in the day when we needed sugar to survive, finding fruits and finding things that are high in sugar was good for us. So our brains are like, okay, yes, remember where that thing is? So the sugar kind of hooks up with our brain and releases a lot of dopamine. So things that release a lot of dopamine, for example, cocaine, right. That's a huge dopamine release. Opioids, things like that also don't have dopamine in them. They just release a lot of dopamine.
Brady: So it sounds like our brains trigger that release of dopamine to give us that memory of where this thing is.
Rebekah: Yes.
Brady: Got it. Okay, so let's jump in and talk about a dopamine detox. So can you talk about what actually a dopamine detox is?
Rebekah: So this has been something that people have been doing for a very long time. This is kind of a phrase that has come up because it's kind of a fun little phrase for what monks have been doing for a lot of people, especially in religious communities. But it's basically really, really cutting out those things that give us those really high, high peaks of dopamine. And, you know, it's kind of. You know, some things are going to give a lot of people those high peaks. Sugar, fruit, foods, social media. But it's really realizing what it is for you. For some people, online shopping is really giving them a lot of dopamine. For other people, it's more of a choreograph. So it's really figuring out what are those things that are giving you those peaks of dopamine that are kind of a little bit of addictive kind of bad habits and cutting those out for a period of time. Sometimes it's, you know, just a few days, sometimes it's a whole month. And. And letting those dopamine reservoirs basically come back. Because when we are doing a lot of these really kind of addictive habits, our dopamine kind of goes down. We. We run out of dopamine. If I'm checking my phone constantly and I'm getting those hits of dopamine all the time, eventually I'm going to have less and less dopamine. So when I really do something I enjoy, it doesn't really actually feel that good. Um, I. I feel like most people have had that kind of experience where it's like, wow, I really, you know, I really used to enjoy a lot of things, but I just don't. I just don't anymore. And I. I tend to, you know, even a walk outside, it just doesn't feel the same. Um, that might be due to depression, um, but it also might be due to somebody just having too many of these kind of bad habits or addictive behaviors. So a dopamine detox is really cutting back those. Those things out for a period of time, letting that dopamine come back, maybe finding other behaviors that are a little healthier, and then going back to your regular life and seeing what the difference is.
Brady: So it sounds like our bodies or our brains keep this store of dopamine that they're producing, and when we have these activities and the dopamine is released, that can lead to some kind of deficit. And maybe the detox is where it rebalances that out and accounts for that deficit. Does that sound right?
Rebekah: Yeah, yeah, it's. That's exactly what it is. On the more extreme example, on a regular detox. Right. People who use substances, all their kind of chemicals have to come back too. And then getting that back can be really painful. Even doing something like this, you know, just social media or just video games can also kind of feel a little bit painful, too. So it's also writing that out.
Brady: Yeah, yeah. So it's a lot about figuring out, and probably most people know, but, like, what is your maybe addiction or maybe compulsive behavior or thing that really gives you that spike personally? Right.
Rebekah: I think it is. It is figuring out what is your personal thing that you tend to go to when you're stressed, when you're bored, when you're in pain.
Brady: And has there been much research about this or any science to back this up? I know in theory it sounds really great and there are a lot of people doing it on the Internet, but is there any real solid research to back this up?
Rebekah: Yeah, yeah, there's been a lot of research in terms of actually being able to look at the amount of dopamine people are having when they are kind of doing some of these habits that they have and then when they stop and then when they kind of come back and how that does actually increase. There's been a lot more recent research around social media use, specifically in young people. And there is a lot of research that shows that taking a break is so incredibly helpful for your mental health. There's less research about some of these other more specific things, like maybe shopping addiction and. And other things that people might be dealing with. But I would, you know, guess and if we kind of put some money into the research, that it would show similar results.
Brady: And so we kind of touched a little bit on how actually to execute a dopamine detox. But maybe you could just lay out briefly, step by step, what do you actually do to perform a dopamine detox?
Rebekah: Yeah, yeah. I think having a plan before you do some of these things is so incredibly important. It can be really fun of, like, yeah, I want to do it, and then you kind of just don't think about it. But having a plan, having a couple days of thinking about what you're going to do, the first thing that I would do is really think about what are maybe those main behaviors that you want to decrease. So whether it's social media use, whether it's. It can be vaping, it can be online shopping, it can be video games, what are some of those main behaviors that you're like, this has kind of become a problem, or I think this is maybe why I'm not feeling the best right now. Then I would think of those secondary behaviors. If I stop playing video games, what is the next thing I would probably go to that maybe I don't do as much, but I would kind of use to cope. So maybe I tend to play video games, but if I don't do that, I'm going to like doom scroll the news, for example. It's like, okay, I am identifying some of these maybe problematic behaviors. Great. Next I'm going to try to think, to identify why am I going to some of these things. Right. Is it stress? Is it, I'm trying to dissociate from work, Is it, I'm just bored, I'm in pain. Just list some of those things. I think that can be helpful. And then what I find really helpful, because I've done dopamine detoxes before, is what we call a dopamine menu. So having a list of activities that you can go to that are a little healthier. And what I've specifically found really helpful is having it based on the level of difficulty and then where you're at. So for like, let's say appetizers, something that's so incredible, incredibly easy to do when you're just bored, you don't want to do anything, you've had a long day of work, whatever it is, maybe it's listening to music, listening to a podcast, an audiobook, just like, you barely don't have to do any work, or just like, I just need to stand up and walk in a circle. Or I just, I just need to dance to some, like, fun music. And then going a little bit more difficult, but maybe we'll give you that more release of dopamine. So maybe it's reading a book or going out and playing soccer with your friends. And then again, I think if you work in an office or you're typically at a different location, creating things to do while you're there, maybe while you're standing in line, what are you going to do? Right. Making a plan for that? Because people tend to take out their phones now when they're waiting for any amount of time. And then after that, I would really think about, how are you going to not do those things you don't want to do? Are you going to, you know, there's all sorts of things you can get on Amazon for your phone. But kind of just thinking about, okay, how am I going to restrict this use? Am I going to put it in another closet? Right. If it's a video game, if I have to use my phone for life, Right. How is that going to look? Or maybe I just want to, like, while I'm on vacation. That's when I'm going to do this. Right. It's typically better to do it while you're at home or you're in typical place. But if you recognize in yourself, it's going to be too difficult to actually do a dopamine detox at home. It's better to be like, oh, I'm going to go camping. I normally, you know, would have a hard time getting a signal anyway. Let me just try this while I'm camping. And then lastly, have a buddy or have something that keeps you accountable. Because, you know, it's the same with working out. It's like, you know, if you let people know and you don't do it, then you're gonna feel a little bad. So, like, use shame and guilt to your advantage and to kind of get you through it.
Brady: That's really insightful for me. I've known a lot of these things, but just to hear it in that order, I think is really helpful. A lot of times I'll think first, okay, I want to stop snacking after dinner. And so first I'm going to move the snacks. I'm going to tell my wife. And then maybe I'll eventually get back to those first steps that you mentioned of figuring out, okay, why am I doing this and what are other behaviors that I can do to replace it with. All that said, with the instructions laid out. Do you have any personal experiences that you can share either from clients or stories you've heard or just any experiences that you could share?
Rebekah: Yeah. So I went through a dopamine detox a few weeks ago just because I was like, you know, I'm. I feel like I use social media to cope a little too much. Right. I. I sometimes work can be kind of stressful, and I notice that I go on my phone when I'm stressed, and I don't really like that. I don't necessarily want to, like, delete social media altogether, but I kind of want to have an experiment of, like, why am I doing this? What are some other things I can do? So I tried it out. I think it was for about a week. One thing I noticed about myself was when I'm in physical pain or physical discomfort, I use social media a lot more, or I wanted to, at least. I had a big, big craving to use social media. So that was something that I learned about myself that I didn't really even know before because I would just instinctively go to social media when I was in any sort of physical pain or feeling a little bit sick. So that really helped me in the future of, like, okay, I'm not feeling the best, or I actually wasn't aware of my body as much. So it's. I think having a journal or having something while you're doing some of this practice can be really insightful, not only for your use, but maybe for other things that you are ignoring because you, you know, you use this thing as a distraction and you're not aware of your body or maybe your Relationships or something else. In terms of clients, I work more with people dealing with substance use, so it's more of a regular kind of detox. But I have kind of noticed that there are typical things that people go to when they're dealing with this kind of lack of dopamine. One thing is candy. Candy is, like, a really, really big thing on the unit. Sugar. It's one of the easiest things for dopamine. It's just like, you have that cookie, and it's like, oh, okay, I'm feeling. Feeling good. So really being aware of. You kind of talked about snacking. Really being aware of what you tend to go to. It might be something different than you would think when you're trying to stop a behavior.
Brady: Okay, nice. And you mentioned the concept of pain, and this is something that I see a lot, a lot in this conversation. It seems like the concept of pain is. And you touched on a little bit of kind of understanding yourself. But it's not quite so simple as, I hurt my knee, I scraped my elbow. Now I'm gonna, like, go on social media. Can you just talk a little bit more about that and kind of what pain refers to and things to be aware of there?
Rebekah: So there's the physical pain, and there's, you know, psychological pain and pain. For humans, we don't want to feel it. We want to avoid it. So whatever helps us the easiest to avoid the pain, whether it's physical, if my, you know, stomach is hurting or whatever it is, it makes it better in our lives to, you know, have something that kind of gets us away from that. And that can be helpful in certain types of moments when we know that, hey, I'm not feeling good right now. I know that I'm using this trashy TV show to ignore the pain I'm feeling right now. But when it becomes this, like, subconscious thing that we do whenever we feel pain, it's actually very bad for us because pain is also letting us know that something is wrong. So if we're using something to distract ourselves subconsciously every single time we're feeling pain, we're not going to fix whatever is causing us pain. Right. So if. If we're aware, we're like, okay, yep, I'm in pain. I'm using this to distract myself. That is not so bad. I'm not so concerned about that. But it's when you stop and you're like, oh, I'm feeling all either psychological pain or physical pain. It's like, ooh, maybe this has kind of Become a little bit more of a problem.
Brady: Got it? Yeah. So it's like if you do scrape your elbow, having some candy might make you feel better, but it's not going to stop the bleeding. And so we need to figure out what is causing the bleeding and get to it. Sometimes it's more serious or, you know, sometimes it can linger on and cause deeper issues for us. Can you talk about some other mental health improvements that people might get from doing in dopamine detox?
Rebekah: Yeah. Yeah. So what we talked about a little bit before is not really feeling that kind of satisfaction with whatever you're getting before. Right. If you're having these kind of bad habits, you not only not feel the satisfaction from that habit, but from other things. It's kind of like when you have a tub of ice cream and you have that first bite, you're the first. The first bite is always going to be the best bite. The next bites, you're just trying to get back to that first bite and you keep on eating and it's just trying to get back to that like, level of dopamine you had at the beginning. So that's the same for other things. So when you go on a detox of dopamine or you reduce some of these things, eventually that helps you feel joy in other ways. So when we're having these types of activities that give us this long lasting dopamine, it's not necessarily feelings of super excitement, super happiness, but it's more feelings of contentment, of peace, of satisfaction. And that is really what we want to see when we're looking at people's mental health. Mental health is not just being super, super happy all the time, but it's being able to feel peace and being able to cope in the moment when things are a little bit difficult.
Brady: So with dopamine detoxes, a lot of times I'll see YouTube videos where half of it is a person and they're super sad and half of it is a person and they're super happy, they're super excited. And sounds like that's not entirely really the goal of it. Can you talk about like some limitations or what kind of criticisms do you know about doing a dopamine detox?
Rebekah: I think it's really being mindful of yourself. Right. So when we talk about making a plan, it's also reflecting on your own life and whether or not you think this would be a good thing for you to do. Because it is not for everybody. It might be, you know, getting, getting rid of some of these Behaviors, you might want to do a different kind of, you know, you might want to do therapy or you might want to, you know, use an app or something else. But dopamine detox is basically an experiment. It's really being aware of yourself, your own behaviors or feelings so that you can use that information in the future. Right. It's absolutely not going to make you like super, super happy. It might be the opposite for a bit. Right. You might feel some discomfort, boredom, but you might feel a little bit more, you know, peaceful possibly. Right. Or you might not like it at all. Right. That's also a possibility. But you, you will learn something hopefully about yourself if you are aware, if you're kind of paying attention during that time. And that information is, can be helpful in your long lasting goals of, you know, being a little bit more happy or finding a little bit more satisfaction in what you're doing.
Brady: Yeah, that makes sense. So you've talked a lot about how to do a dopamine detox and kind of the limits and you have talked about tips for successful dopamine detox. Do you have any other tips that you haven't shared yet that might be, be helpful for people if they're, if they do want to jump into this?
Rebekah: Yeah, I think one thing that can be really helpful that people maybe forget is towards the end of your detox, also have a plan. I think you can be like, oh, I made it this whole month and I've done what I need to do and I'm so ready to get back to my snacking or, you know, my online shopping. And that tends to lead to a binge. And then that kind of reverses everything that you've done so far and being really, really careful at that time. So what I think can be really helpful is, you know, depending on how long you've been doing the detox, a few days before you're going to end. Really think about why you even did it in the first place. Like, what are the benefits you're trying to get? Why, you know, how is it impacting other people? How is it maybe impacting your finances or your health? Really think about these motivating factors and think about specifically how you want to change once you're done. If you go back to the exact same behaviors you were doing before then, it wasn't really helpful. And you, you know, you kind of, you know, will feel the same way in a few days. So really having a plan at the end, it can be hard because you're so relieved and you want to, you Want to do those things that feel. Feel good really, really quickly. But having a plan is so, so important. So use that information you've gathered and say, like, okay, you know, reading has been really helpful. That's what was helpful for me. When I was doing my dopamine detox, I read like, like three times as much as I did before. And so knowing that I was like, okay, I really need to make sure I have a book with me. Most places I go, even if I'm waiting in line, I can just read a couple pages. So that's been really helpful for me. But if you just go back to the same behavior, it's really not going to be that helpful.
Brady: Right. So it's a lot about figuring out really what's right for you, this specific person that's actually doing the dopamine detox and kind of what to take away from that. So you're not going back to exactly where you were before.
Rebekah: Exactly.
Brady: Okay, great. Is there anything else that we haven't covered that you would want to share about a dopamine detox that could be helpful for people?
Rebekah: I think one thing is if you can get a buddy to do it with you, having somebody else, even if they're not in the same location, just having somebody to kind of riff off of, to talk to, to figure out, you know, oh, you know, I notice I get super, super bored. I don't even know what to do. I feel like I'm just sitting on the couch and I can't think of ideas or, you know, oh, I've noticed these things about myself. It can be so incredibly helpful to do this with another person, and that other person can also see things that you're not seeing. So I think if you can. If you can convince your friend or your spouse or whoever, it can be really helpful.
Brady: Okay, thank you so much. This all has been really helpful and insightful for me. We talked about what is dopamine and why is it important? Which we talked about some of the research and studies behind doing a dopamine detox and the effects it can have, actually how to execute, doing a dopamine detox, personal accounts of different detoxes and mental health improvements, general mental health benefits. And then we talked a little bit about criticisms and limitations of dopamine detox, as well as tips for a successful dopamine detox, and then how to take those things and integrate that into your normal everyday life. So thank you so much, Dr. Rebekah. This has been a great time chatting with you and really appreciate it.